Episode 24
Getting the Most Out of ACTs & SATs
This is a "double scoop" episode which originally published in March of 2023. The insights from Patty DaSilva are still pretty solid. Enjoy!
The discussion surrounding the necessity of SAT and ACT scores for college admissions is both pertinent and evolving. School Counselor Patty DaSilva elucidates the varying requirements of colleges and universities, highlighting the distinction between test-optional and test-blind policies. The episode delves into the comparative merits of the SAT and ACT, emphasizing that individual student strengths should guide the choice between the two. Ultimately, our dialogue aims to equip families with the necessary insights to navigate the college admissions landscape effectively, ensuring that students are well-prepared for their future academic endeavors.
Guest: School Counseling Supervisor Patty DaSilva
Useful links from the podcast:
- The ACT Test for Students | ACT
- SAT Dates and Deadlines – SAT Suite | College Board
- CCSD School Counseling Department
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Takeaways:
- The necessity of SAT and ACT scores varies significantly based on the specific college or university a student aspires to attend, which necessitates thorough research.
- Standardized tests are not universally required, and understanding terms like 'test optional' and 'test blind' is crucial for students and families.
- It is advisable for students to take the SAT or ACT unless they are certain of their college choices, as taking the tests can provide options later.
- The distinction between the SAT and ACT lies in their structure and approach; the SAT emphasizes critical thinking while the ACT focuses on straightforward problem-solving.
- Families should be aware that students eligible for free or reduced lunch can take each standardized test twice for free, which can alleviate financial burdens.
- The role of parents in the college application process should be supportive, allowing students to take the lead while providing necessary assistance and guidance.
Transcript
Acts and SATs, are they even needed anymore?
Speaker A:That's the topic for this edition of the Inside Scoop.
Speaker A:Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Inside Scoop.
Speaker A:I'm David Owen.
Speaker A:Over the past few years, things have changed and changed a lot.
Speaker A:At one point it was announced that many colleges and universities were no longer requiring standardized test scores for admission.
Speaker A:Here to give us the scoop on the current state of things in the world of admissions is the high school and middle school counseling consultant, Patty Da Silva.
Speaker A:Welcome to the podcast, Patty.
Speaker B:Hi.
Speaker B:Thanks for having me.
Speaker A:A lot of the colleges and universities are like making it variable as to whether you are they need it anymore.
Speaker A:First question out of the gate.
Speaker B:I mean, I feel like everything that has to do with SAT and ACT isn't a very clear cut answer.
Speaker B:Are they needed?
Speaker B:Really a lot of that has to do with the college or university that a student is interested in.
Speaker B:You may see the words test optional, you might see where it's test blind.
Speaker B:But really all that means is are they going to look at your scores if you choose to take it?
Speaker A:So it very much depends on where you want to go?
Speaker B:Very much so.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So unless a student knows already where they want to go, like an exhaustive list, they probably should take it.
Speaker A:Does that.
Speaker B:It doesn't hurt to take it.
Speaker B:So I know there's many students that just, they don't like testing, think they don't do well at might cause just some stress or some anxiety.
Speaker B:But there's really no harm in taking it because you have a choice of whether you want to send the scores or not.
Speaker B:Oh, that's a good point.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:There is an option while you're signing up for the test to automatically send scores, which is typically best used the closer you're getting to graduation and application deadlines.
Speaker B:But really there's no harm in taking the test.
Speaker B:See how you do, see if your scores would help and kind of make that decision from there.
Speaker B:See if the college requires it and make the decision from there.
Speaker A:Is one test better?
Speaker A:I even heard of a competitive test.
Speaker A:I don't know if it's on the professional radar yet or not, but I think it's called the Classical learning test, the CLTs I guess they'll call them.
Speaker A:Is one test better than the other?
Speaker B:So the CLTs I am not familiar with, but that is very interesting to hear and I'm not surprised because there's always a discussion of monopolizing.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like the sat.
Speaker B:The college board has taken over everything and the ACT is always trying to catch up.
Speaker B:So I wouldn't be surprised if there's another entity coming in trying to be a part of that.
Speaker B:But really, as of.
Speaker B:Or when it comes to SAT and act, there's really not one that's better than the other.
Speaker B:It has to do with which one better suits the student.
Speaker B:They are two very different tests.
Speaker A:I was going to say, what is that difference between the ACT and the sat?
Speaker B:So the ACT is much more straightforward questions.
Speaker B:So if they ask a question, what is 2 times 2?
Speaker B:It equals 4.
Speaker B:So if you see 4 as the answer, you answer it and move on.
Speaker B:This does cause the ACT to be much more fast paced.
Speaker B:That's why many students will find they don't have enough time, but they want you to just answer it and move on.
Speaker B:Answer it and move on.
Speaker B:Whereas the SAT is more critical thinking, digging in between answers.
Speaker B:If they ask you 2 times 2, you're probably missing a step in there somewhere.
Speaker B:It's probably 2x +2 or something that's not necessarily as straightforward.
Speaker B:So they give you more time per question to allow you to think about it, use those critical thinking skills and really put your best thought into an answer before you move on to the next one.
Speaker A:Would it be fair to characterize the SATs as trickier?
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, I think that's.
Speaker B:That's very fair.
Speaker B:But it's also interesting because there's.
Speaker B:There's almost like a regional alignment per se.
Speaker A:A preference.
Speaker B:Yes, in a way.
Speaker B:So Georgia for many years has tended towards the College Board and SAT side, which is, you know, shown through how the state pays for all 10th graders to take the PS.
Speaker B:And so we like to have 8th and 9th graders take it to prep for it in 10th grade.
Speaker B:In 11th grade is when the National Merit Qualifying comes in, which is only done through the PSAT and the sat.
Speaker B:Whereas the act.
Speaker B:There's other states that, like Alabama, for example, they tend to be very much an ACT state.
Speaker B:And they might do a pre ACT during the day as we do PSAT for our students.
Speaker A:So I think the message to pull from that is the state of Georgia is full of more critical thinkers than the state of maybe not.
Speaker A:Maybe not.
Speaker A:I shouldn't throw shade on our neighbors to the west.
Speaker B:I wish there was more critical thinking skills nationwide, much less in our state.
Speaker A:That's a whole different podcast.
Speaker A:So, I mean, this time of year feels like the SATs and ACT announcements go out and stuff.
Speaker A:Is this the time of year that parents should be looking for those tests or does it matter?
Speaker B:So spring does tend to Be testing season.
Speaker B:I think the kind of age old wisdom was test in the end of your junior year.
Speaker B:Really the best time to start testing is when a student is at least halfway done with algebra 2.
Speaker B:So that could come in 10th grade.
Speaker B:There's some that are really accelerated in math that could come in ninth grade.
Speaker B:But the majority of the math on these two tests tends to go not much more upwards than algebra 2.
Speaker B:So that's really the point to determine when a student should start testing, to just be best prepared for the content that's on the test.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And you can take the test several times, can't you?
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:I mean, it costs money to take it, right?
Speaker B:That is a download.
Speaker A:Do you know how much?
Speaker B:Oh man, I have not been in it long enough.
Speaker B:It used to be about $50.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Per test.
Speaker A:But that could have gone up.
Speaker A:Everything else has gone up.
Speaker B:Yes, very much so.
Speaker B:I will say it is important that any families who receive free or reduced lunch, that they know they can take each SAT and act twice for free as long as they talk to their school counselor about a waiver of that test.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Get it coordinated through your counselor.
Speaker B:That's a very important piece of it.
Speaker B:And I know there's a lot of stigma about whether or not families want free and reduced lunch, but I always encourage it because not only can you do these tests for free, but there's even college application fees later if you test for free, that it can waive those fees as well.
Speaker A:Oh, thinking ahead.
Speaker A:That's critical thinking.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker B:I took the SAT back in high school.
Speaker A:So is test prep necessary?
Speaker A:I mean, can you really prepare for one of these tests as I perceive it?
Speaker A:At least it seems like it's attempting to assess what you have learned in all of your schooling, K through 12.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:You'd be right about that.
Speaker A:So how far can test prep actually take you?
Speaker B:So you're definitely right that the content on the test really should be what you've learned mostly in high school.
Speaker B:Some of it might dip into middle, but it's really going to be mostly high school content.
Speaker B:Test prep.
Speaker B:It's not going to teach you anything.
Speaker B:It may go back and review algebra.
Speaker B:So if it's been three years since you've taken algebra, it might be helpful to review some of those concepts.
Speaker B:But really what test prep does is it just helps a student feel comfortable in the test environment.
Speaker B:So they'll practice timing, they'll practice kind of organizing their thoughts, they'll practice.
Speaker B:Even the ACT can be easy.
Speaker B:Medium hard questions.
Speaker B:So some of the test prep may suggest starting at the end of a section to do the hard ones and then work backwards.
Speaker B:But it's really just a matter of comfort and going into the testing center that day and not just like clamming up.
Speaker A:And so it's not as much about the test itself.
Speaker A:It's about how to take a standardized test.
Speaker A:Is that okay?
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker B:And because the two tests are so different, the Act 1, the Prep probably will be more about the timing of it and, you know, keeping a watch with you so that you can see how much time you're spending per question.
Speaker B:You don't spend too much time per question, but it's really just the how the test works and the comfort of being in that environment and just feeling your best self and feeling most confident going into that test and, you know, giving it your best shot, like keeping.
Speaker A:A healthy pressure on you to keep moving, but don't get super anxious about it.
Speaker B:Right, right.
Speaker A:So what are.
Speaker A:I know that the ACT and SATs have different scoring ranges.
Speaker A:What's a good score on each of them?
Speaker B:So again, going back to kind of what I said at the beginning, there's not really a concrete answer for much of when it comes down to sat, ACT and really college admissions pieces at all.
Speaker B:There's not a good or bad score per se.
Speaker B:It really comes down to the college or university that a student is interested in.
Speaker B:Another piece of this are scholarship organizations, when we talk about that test optional piece, some scholarships that might be the only way that they can determine who is the best selection.
Speaker B:But there's not a good score.
Speaker B:I always suggest students give themselves a goal, but a realistic goal of what they want to score based on colleges that are a good fit for them overall.
Speaker B:We always want students to have the safety schools.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:We also always want them to have their dream schools, but it's those middle of the road, those range schools, those target schools.
Speaker B:What do they require of a student?
Speaker B:And if that, that's a school that fits your needs, that's a good goal to set for yourself.
Speaker B:Instead of reaching way too high and then just feeling defeated every time you don't get that score.
Speaker A:And always try to consider more than just one school, because you lose that one, you're devastated, and then you're set back to ground zero again.
Speaker B:A whole nother podcast.
Speaker B:We could talk about college admissions for days, but yes, do not settle on just one school.
Speaker B:Reach, range and safety is what we call them.
Speaker A:Reach, range and safety, always reach high, stay within your range, and then also have a safe Fallback.
Speaker B:Always got a backup plan.
Speaker A:All right, so the, the old days, they used to have an essay section on the sat.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:Did they have it on the act?
Speaker B:They did.
Speaker A:Okay, how, how are those done nowadays?
Speaker A:Are they, do they still have them?
Speaker B:So the SAT was redesigned many years ago, pre Covid even, and they don't have a specific essay section.
Speaker B:They kind of took the essay into the English language arts grammar.
Speaker B:They embedded it in there.
Speaker B:The ACT does still have an essay section.
Speaker B:It's a random topic given with a certain timetable and kind of modern research is showing that colleges aren't looking at that as heavily anymore.
Speaker B:I would say it's worth it to do it once just so it's kind of done.
Speaker B:And if you do encounter a college that wants to see those scores, at least you have it done with.
Speaker B:But most colleges and universities agree that a timed written essay is not going to show your best work.
Speaker B:Which of course there's argument of that with any timed assessment.
Speaker B:But there are benefits to time.
Speaker B:Standardized test.
Speaker B:But the essay piece, many colleges that want to see the written aspect of it, if that's, you know, an integral part of their program, they might request a written assignment you've done while you're in a high school.
Speaker B:Maybe it's a topic you've chosen, maybe it's one you've done really well on.
Speaker B:It's a way of you showcasing yourself that's not in a here's a random topic you might know nothing about.
Speaker B:Give me an argument in a 30 minute time period.
Speaker A:And it probably is more reflective of your cognitive abilities.
Speaker A:I would think because it's less about anxiety and last minute rush.
Speaker A:It might actually be catering on the timed essays.
Speaker A:Might be catering more to the procrastinators.
Speaker A:Right, right.
Speaker B:I mean, I always did fine on the timed essays because it was like a brain dump.
Speaker B:But yeah, I don't think it's for most high school students, I don't think it's going to be a great indicator of whether you can write well when you can write in just a short period of time.
Speaker B:Because in college, in universities, that's not generally something that's going to be looked at or assessed is that if you can write quickly and well, it's going to be just your overall writing in general.
Speaker A:So I think you kind of touched on this earlier.
Speaker A:How many times can or should a student take the ACT or sat so.
Speaker B:They can take it Many times.
Speaker B:Tests do have the SAT and ACT do have a maximum amount of times that you can take it but most of the research shows that a plateau tends to happen after like the third or fourth test.
Speaker B:So usually you test once, you're kind of just getting your feet wet, seeing what the test looks like, just getting acclimated to the test environment.
Speaker B:The second time, scores do tend to go up whether or not you have test prep, just because you're prepared for what that test is going to ask you.
Speaker A:Well, the first test was your prep, right?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Basically it could be.
Speaker B:And then the third and fourth time there doesn't tend to be much more escalation in points.
Speaker B:There's not big gaps that research has seen.
Speaker B:So conventional wisdom is usually two to three times is probably the average of what students how many times they will take the time.
Speaker A:And that's counting the PSAT or that's in addition to.
Speaker B:That would be in addition to.
Speaker B:So the psat, although similar to the sat, is still not going to be the exact same test because it is just preliminary.
Speaker B:It helps to see what the testing environment is going to be like.
Speaker B:Especially like I said here in Cobb and In Georgia in 10th grade, the test is purchased for all students so they have that opportunity to be in a secured testing environment that would be similar to the rest of them, but they are still two very different tests.
Speaker A:Okay, now the last question is one that I think may impact a lot of families and that is how engaged, involved should parents be in their student's application process and the testing process and so forth.
Speaker A:Can you give us some insights on what the ideal would be in a family environment?
Speaker B:The ideal answer would be that families, parents, guardians that they serve as support.
Speaker B:So really the students should take the lead on almost anything when it comes to high school.
Speaker B:So by the time they reach 9th, maybe 10th grade, they should be the ones kind of leading the charge.
Speaker B:So if they are registering for the SAT or act, if there's not a very clear cut website, then Googling it usually brings up the best way to get to it.
Speaker A:I'll say.
Speaker A:They got no excuse nowadays, right?
Speaker B:No, I don't think so.
Speaker B:But most schools and most counseling offices do have the websites that they can click on.
Speaker B:But it's a, the first time they take either test, it's a pretty lengthy application, but because there's also an interest inventory that's included in there and the SAT and ACT will send potential career options based on that interest inventory.
Speaker B:And they might even ask what a student is looking for in a college or university.
Speaker B:And although families do know their students pretty well, there's just no reason for them to do that application when it's asking those kinds of individualized to this student questions.
Speaker B:So my suggestion in an ideal world would be that the parent or the guardian or the family sit with the student, sit down together to do it.
Speaker B:So that if the student's doing the application and they have questions, then you're right there to answer it.
Speaker B:But then also at the end, when payment comes in, if that's where a family is going to help, then you're there, ready, you can offer the payment.
Speaker B:And then also it just really helps to prepare the students.
Speaker B:If they're taking the SAT and act to go to college, then they're going to need to know how to do things on their own and the parents are always going to be there to support.
Speaker B:So it's good to just kind of start in that, you know, vein of, you know, how to operate as soon as possible.
Speaker B:You know, let them do the application, let them ask questions.
Speaker B:It's not as easy as, oh, well, students are so busy with everything.
Speaker B:Well, parents are busy with a lot of things too, so work together.
Speaker A:It's sometimes it's harder to sit back though, right?
Speaker A:As a parent, it is.
Speaker A:But I get what you're saying.
Speaker A:I think the listeners will appreciate that too.
Speaker A:And if you're about to send your student off to live life somewhat alone, they need to start taking those reins.
Speaker A:And having parents nearby, that's awesome.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Let them fail while you're nearby so that when it's time for them to actually go, everything is cool and you can rest assured they know what they're.
Speaker B:Doing and they also know that you're always there.
Speaker B:So, I mean, maybe it's a moment that the parent can sit there and read an email that they've been sitting in their inbox for a while that they haven't had the time to do while the student's answering their interest inventory.
Speaker B:And then if the student has questions, they're there to help.
Speaker B:And then the test day too.
Speaker B:So here's the other thing that we've come across.
Speaker B:When the parents do too much, the families do too much for the students.
Speaker B:Then they show up for test day unprepared.
Speaker B:They give this lovely test ticket that is on one page detailed with exactly what you need to bring.
Speaker B:But every single time that test is offered, there is a photo ID that's forgotten or there is a pencil that is forgotten or a calculator.
Speaker B:So the more ownership a student takes of the registration, the more they'll take of getting prepared for test day.
Speaker B:And I really think the more they'll take doing the actual test and feeling confident going into it as opposed to scrambling that morning and saying, mom, dad, did you get all my stuff ready?
Speaker B:Like where's my pencil?
Speaker B:It's taking ownership, but it really does set them up for success in the future and kind of what they're gonna encounter when they leave the nest.
Speaker A:And like you said, beginning early in the high school years, maybe second year of high school, as a parent, it's a good idea to start letting them totally spread their wings, do their thing.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean you're always there, you know, they're accepting it.
Speaker A:The only caveat I would say, and you correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker A:But the fafsa, the financial thing, how engaged should the parent be on that?
Speaker B:I mean there's a student section for that too.
Speaker B:So I mean really like I think the many post secondary organizations and really even just secondary schools are trying very hard to encourage the students to take ownership and you know, allow the parents to still be a part of it.
Speaker B:Because that's what we want.
Speaker B:We want to be a part of our kids lives, but we also need to prepare them for what the world's going to show them, what they're going to encounter.
Speaker B:But the FAFSA has a student piece where the student can complete their part.
Speaker B:It's like step one and then step two is the parent part.
Speaker B:So the student can even start the FAFSA and basically hand it off to the parent.
Speaker B:Or again, in an ideal world, they can sit down together and do it.
Speaker A:Well, this has been incredibly enlightening and I really appreciate you coming by and helping our listeners understand what some of the advantages and pitfalls are in the whole process.
Speaker A:Testing obviously is just a part of the admissions process, but it sure is a huge part.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:So listeners check out those show notes for some helpful links and make sure you like, follow and subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss this out.
Speaker A:You might also want to consider sending it to a friend.
Speaker A:Thank you for listening to this edition of the Inside Scoop, a podcast produced by the Cobb County School.
